I didnt want these points to go unmade. When my friends are all gone. Some things are not. love does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. its, like, the top christianese word that means so many different abstract things (depending on whos using the it) that it sort of means nothing anymore. Certainly! It's God who opens doors, but we must walk through them. It is pure hearsay or flat gossip to engage in tearing down other church bodies in an effort to be judge and jury in the place of God. We must put our unreserved trust in God alone, and to at least some degree view all men even our most trusted loved ones by their fruits. The Bible(s) of the Christian church is a very big and complex book, much of it written by men who never met Jesus, nor met anyone who heard Jesus teach. ++++++++++++++++++++. You shouldve released your statement the first time around. Nobody wants this. My Savior stands between We were in a panic, didnt have enough hands to scramble around and cover all their eyes, which, up to this point, had been quite innocent. Dallas has at long last come out, along with a long list of other former top Harvest leadrs. Bayloy University Medical Center, 3500 Gaston Ave., Dallas, TX 75246 carlos_bll@yahoo.com Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, Diocese of Chicago and Detroit Bishop Peter Loukianoff 4/26/2019 Community Bible Church Ed Newton and Sean Metcalf 2477 N. 1604 East San Antonio TX 78232 5/1/2018 Harvest Bible Chapel Tampa Bay Rev. We know these things intrinsically by knowing the people. Remember, free speech is about what the government can and cant do, doesnt have diddly to do with a private forum. I just wonder how much of my tithes went to support their gambling problem. After seven years, the growing congregation of 500 raised funds in six weeks to secure a former warehouse at 800 S Rohlwing Road in Rolling Meadows. a Christian/inspirational filmmaker, and former Director of Visual Media and member of the Executive Leadership Team at Harvest Bible Chapel . Jimmy Evans, Head of Marriage Today TV & Sr Pastor and Apostle of Gateway Church, is reportedly in contact with James MacDonald. Harvest Bible Chapel (HBC) has long been under scrutiny for its finances, questionable transparency, large debts due to its acquisitions of many campuses in the Chicago area, and possible mismanagement. Thanks for the reply. I will try and reign it in. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop them (Acts 5:38-39). I figure whenever Paul was speaking to us through Scripture, he was drawing from his personal knowledge of the Kingdom of God rather than what he thought about it. As for your dig at anonymous people, you are hoping to do the same thing. Now lets see him use his powerful personality and influence to secure real transparency, healing and change for the thousands of people he claims to care about. perhaps the other side of this coin can be the joy and happiness of discovering the magnificence of fellow human beings outside the context of christian culture. you are a very comforting presence here, Max. Whether or not those offices were appropriate, church history shows they developed early and were ubiquitous. Im holding out hope that my faith in God will survive, but truth be told, some days that seems uncertain as well (, Ex HBC staff, thank you for sharing your pain. Law Prof: I think Sinclair Lewis was an emotional infant and had a lot more in common with Elmer Gantry than he had the introspection to see. Jenkins is a former member of the Executive Leadership Team at Harvest Bible Chapel where he served as the Executive Director of Vertical Church Media. I suppose those are the sort of preachers Jesus had in mind when He said: Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. Living in what the people of Chicagoland call "the northwest suburbs" theologian Scot McKnight and his daughter, teacher Laura Barringer had a front row seat when things began unraveling at Harvest Bible Chapel and Willow Creek Community Church, and furthermore were acquainted with many of the people who became a part of our daily Twitter and blog feeds about both stories. For some, that would be a great option. Which really Goes against believing in an all powerful creator God almighty. At Harvest Kids, we love teaching Gods Word. The way back: 2 Chronicles 7:14 but I dont see much movement in that direction. I share this for all who, like me, are overcome with new sadness, pain and loss amidst the HBC, Willow, Catholic church, ECFA, SBC, GFA, etc. Sadly, many have not served well. How you understand the word? We have versions of truth and half-truth at best in most places, allowing a theological DNA to supersede the real thing. In fact, not saying something wouldve been considered enabling and a betrayal of those being hurt.. ++++++++++++++++++++++. And are angry. And I doubt it was simply losing their job, as many of them voluntarily left. ME MAN! There were kindergarten through 5th graders AND many of us parents / employees, who did not know it was going to be shown. The average American Christian has evidently become so open-minded about such characters that their spiritual brains have fallen out! . Imagine the chaos if we all put our full names out there, along with the names of our (former) churches and the various miscreants, lay and ordained, living and dead, who assaulted and extorted us over the decades. I cant put them in the same category as Jesus himself, nor should I. Its why I like to go to what Jesus actually said and did. That movie became a kind of a shibboleth at our church when it came out. I do not see how Hall could seriously be held responsible for the tragic suicide of the young man, but am appreciative that the whole sorry event led him to reevaluate his heart. dee: You sound like an attorney who just sent me a letter stating that I posted false statements by a victim. No ill will intended, and I will add your f-i-l and family to my prayers. Just them asking me to become an elder told me something was wrong. Every church leader should be good and honest. You have any lies and untrue rumors to highlight that are being spread here, out with them. It just doesnt seem to be relevant (at least to me) to anything that this blogs about. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth? Luke 18:8. If I find solace anywhere, its in the quiet moments of solitude and silence wherein I sense anew that the mysteries of life are vast, and that my continued pursuit of that which is beautiful and simple and true is enough for now. There is more than enough dirt throughout this enterprise to make one doubt the integrity or honesty of anyone who was ever long a part of it. I too often look around at this world, and feel discouraged and useless to make any difference. Truly hope you get peace and joy soon. Surely some student got it on their phone. It is finished. elastigirl: why does it matter what Paul thinks? Youre not alone elastigirl, theres no way I could watch it either. I will have to wait until I get to my computer because Im on my phone and the type of the letter is too small to read. Based on my 70-year snapshot of the institutional church, theres a vast difference in what Christ describes vs. what we have put together in this thing we call church. Hall, Ive been consistent here and elsewhere under another net handle and under my actual name that I dont think the guys up to any good at all, either years ago or now. I firmly believe we are experiencing another reformation. Funny how highly institutional types value the written word of God, yet despise the teaching of godly elders that is available to one and all in countless books written through the ages. Thanks to TWW and other watchblogs for standing in the gap. The Apostles warned us this would happen and to be on guard, but we havent done much about it. The manipulation, gaslighting, covering up, mismanagement at an epic level, and complete dysfunction leading to multiple teachers leaving in the middle of the year (some without any notice simply walking out because of the issues which were not being acknowledged or addressed) were devastating to many families. Good Grief. Study all 66 books of the Bible at Dallas Theological Seminary. Begin your journey with the prayer. I guess its all a matter of perspective. If she ends up with child porn on her computer which she can just barely turn on to view Facebook Im going to guess JMac or somebody planted it. After all, Paige Patterson (big game hunter and ex-President, Southwestern Seminary) went on African safaris and used that experience to spread the gospel: https://swbts.edu/news/releases/game-banquet-uses-hunting-venue-spread-gospel/. We the elders fully support him in everything he does. Or maybe their model for doing church is wrong? He is son of celebrated Left Behind author Jerry Jenkins. They are crumbling under their current debt load that FRED saddled them with; still he brags. In the military, the largest combat unit in which the commander leads from the front is the battalion, about 300-400 combat troops. I guess Dallas understands the power of the written word on the internet. The Bible is clear that all people are God's creation (Colossians 1:16), and that God loves the entire world (John 3:16), but only those who have faith (trust) in the work of Jesus are children of God (John 1:12; 11:52; Romans 8:16; 1 John 3:1-10). As of 2020, they now gather as City Line Church. Concerned for the vulnerable animals safety, he left his own gun by its side. I guess its all a matter of perspective. Please do not use these as an excuse not to be part of a vibrant biblical church! We have seen that the octopus has many arms, from mega-churches to major christian publications to all of the organizations that feed the monster. Single pastor, plural pastors, plurality of elders, are pastors even a thing? Walking in the light means not having to cover anything up and not belly aching when God Himself is the one shouting truth and revealing things from His Mountaintop. In a godly biblical hierarchy, what would flow downhill would be love and care. ex HCA Staff: Short films include award-winning "The Ride" and. If I understand your former function at Harvest (based on what you said in your letter) your job involved presenting and tightly controlling the Harvest narrative through media. Ive tried to leave TWW twice to go fishing or something, but my fans urged me to stay. All kidding aside, may you, Jessica, Ryan Mahoney, Dee Parsons, any many others who are continuing to fight the good fight be richly blessed. But there was some dark humor in the hoopla surrounding it. Nice job. You have lived in a place too long where you have not had to embrace it. No more circumcision. Indeed, I tremble considering even posting this brief comment for fear of retribution. Even during Christs life the disciples were weighing out who was most important and who would take the position above all the others. If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. He should never again have a say in how people live their lives. Dont get me wrong, Pauls writings have many great and wonderful things to say, but when the descriptive gets blurred with the universally prescriptive, what results is just another destructive ideology. I assure you that I do not see it as a Catholic problem, nor do I believe that all involved in the institutional church through the centuries have done so with wrong intentions. Jesus held onto me and he will hold onto you. The big issue I have is with the idea that there is this one leader, a high office that this one guy occupies in a church called the pastor. As for Noevangelicals point that no-one on earth is so qualified, that is equally specious. words like unsaved, which always has the connotation of someone to be wary of. Our staff and volunteer leaders cant wait to welcome your kids to our safe, secure, age-appropriate program. or being in a job that is problematic and you know there is something that pays more, treats you better, and is more up your alley yet there is still comfort in what is familiar. Harvest Christian Academy, a private K-12 school with 650 students, was opened in Elgin . I am sorry for your pain. (1 Peter 4:14). No one is forced to read comments and subject themselves to more pain, however, that discussion could help others in dealing or confronting issues. Christ gave Himself for His people and that kind of sacrificial self-giving love was meant to be characteristic of those who stood in Christs place in offices of authority in the churches. It is unwise, and unsafe to loyally declare, But I know and love so and so. Sadly, clever manipulators can deceive very well. It is always, My friends are here, My kids depend on the youth group, or Who is going to bury me?. Truth is real. And this being heard is not merely some desire for gossip or vengeance, but a desire to confront evil and protect the rest of the naive flock from being manipulated, abused and otherwise taken advantage of. They dont want you to have real relationships; the systems designed to prevent them. That, in my humble, fallible opinion, explains much of the evil that has taken place in this world. . We are Harvest a vertical church in two locations in West Michigan (Spring Lake. Im of course speaking about Paul. Like they just made a technical foul in a game. Almighty God himself being murdered by a corrupt religious cabal in collusion with the Roman military. True. He lied. In an interview with the Chicago Sun Times, Jenkins said, "We feel like if people can binge watch . The posting of it on this website is unfortunate, as are many of the false rumors in the comments both here and on Twitter from anonymous people. And for keeping ones mouth shut on the way out? I havent read the comments, and Im just going to say that seeing a dead bear there with James McDonald behind it made me sick. According to the conference website, they will be delivering world-class communicators, high-energy worship and awesome entertainment. Sounds like church, huh?! Christian celebrities would have no stage to perform on if they didnt have an audience willing to buy tickets. To do that you must have first hand knowledge and part of that fellowship in some fashion in order to be qualified to hold people accountable before God. And those statements dont legitimize any of this garbage that goes on. i agree, Paul has worthy things to say that are beneficial. What is an egalitarian group to do I when bullies take over? Can you really fault someone for thinking that maybe they got their ideas on Pastors & elders wrong? But if these offices are wrong it means the wheels fell of of the Church extremely early in its history. I was really hoping I would find that this was a much later development. As if someone who chooses to remain anonymous has no right to speak. Redemption is a gift, freely offered to one and all. RadMan7: Credibility has been diminished. Thats too deep to answer. Your newfound joy is where I, too, am seeing Gods fingerprints, and why I am holding out hope that my faith will survive. January 24, 2023. that exploited the public of Harvest Bible Chapel (the profits of which you enjoyed and benefited from). If all this was that important to the leaders they would have been apoplectic at what they witnessed from JM. It is the internal nagging I have following Dees post on Friday about JD Hall and Braxton Caner. Jesus talked a LOT about living in the Kingdom we would do well to read His words living in the church doesnt always mean living in the Kingdom. Amy Moore: There are about 4 dozen Harvest execs & elders moving on to other ministries and the corruption runs so deep theres no chance they wont be infecting every ministry they touch going forward. Unfortunate, but true. Both the Rolling Meadows and Elgin Campuses started food drives for the community to gather and distribute resources during the pandemic. ANYONE who is still in that place who is not a child or a new believer is complicit and participated in shunning all who left. of course lightning bolt messages from God come about as often as seas parting. I second that. And all youre ever going to be is mean Many are passionate about their cause, but it is far too often found to be a misplaced passion. Why is he going public six years later? Jenkins is jealous that he couldnt run the con as well as Jmac. Rather, it appears that the early church looked much more Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Anglican than low-church protestant. We have heard and experienced horror in groups of all models. Many a victim of domestic or spiritual abuse might have been better protected by understanding this reality. The other 30 Elders and 12 XLT members will, likewise, move on to other ministry opportunities. Noevangelical, and the thought of gathering up ones gumption and taking risks is tiring. For our setting and ministries, it would be very difficult. Heard somewhere; Hell never be a great man.. Maybe the good old fashioned seven deadly sins list would be a good list to start with. Max: And to link them together as a Body of Christ, each one uniquely gifted to be a part of the whole something the institutional church just doesnt appear to get.Whose job is the ministry?Every believer has a part!When we separate believers into clergy vs. laity, pulpit vs. pew, us vs. them failing to equip and mobilize the saints to do the work of the ministry we miss what God intended for His Church and fall short of living in the Kingdom of Heaven here and now.Jesus talked a LOT about living in the Kingdom we would do well to read His words living in the church doesnt always mean living in the Kingdom.Based on my 70-year snapshot of the institutional church, theres a vast difference in what Christ describes vs. what we have put together in this thing we call church. Cool bands, espresso coffee, relevant sermons, fun and fellowship, etc, In the words of the Prophets Emerson, Lake, and Palmer: A lot to think about these days! Identity, faith, sexuality, and gender--come learn what God's Word says about these topics in light of our current culture. In celebration, we hosted Summer Revival at our Elgin campus. not given to wine All our campuses gathered together for three consecutive Saturdays of the summer Ravinia style. But isnt the model you commented on the same model that HBC followed and totally bollixed up? Many have joined the Done ranks done with the institutional church, but not done with Jesus. What is the source? It looks like a church with terminal stage 4 cancer. Id say largely because the leaders themselves have been told to believe this. They are all one and the same. (although unnecessary according to ECFA standards).. Retch, gag, and barf, it gets old, it really does. They tolerate whatever they must (loud music, annoying demands for money, sermons that go in one ear and out the other) in order to establish a community of friends and support in a cold world in which family is often spread across the continent. I rather doubt that they were able to get it right in the end. However, unfaithful leaders who pursue anything but the cause of Christ as the primary driver for ministry fall easily for all three. Ken F (aka Tweed): The history of church offices is a bit more complicated. Max: Thats why the early church had congregational governance, rather than elder rule polity the Body of Christ had a say in who the church leaders were. No more indulgences. Ive got to process that letter. Look what that got them. and purportedly, eternity depends on each individual institution and the collective one. Unless it was a danger to someone. Our '3rd Service' is an online experience drawn from our live Weekend Gatherings. As their hands touched and their lips met, the ragin river pulled them down. At their final congregational meeting, they became a Harvest Bible Chapelgifting their building to us. If I find solace anywhere, its in the quiet moments of solitude and silence wherein I sense anew that the mysteries of life are vast, and that my continued pursuit of that which is beautiful and simple and true is enough for now. You drive over there, and sure enough theres the house thats in the picture from the magazine article. I wonder whether it might not be better to simply abandon the entire property-owning paradigm and return to the original practice of meeting in public places (for large groups) and in homes (for small groups). To whom was it sent? And not many have truly repented I think. Sorry to hear that he is now masquerading as Santa Claus Ill tell my grandchildren to be on the lookout. 5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. But I still hold to my opinions, and consider them at least worthy of consideration for those who look at this mess and wonder how we got here. Im certainly not an Apostle chosen by the hand of Jesus as Paul was nor a prophet, or a son of a prophet. We see in Scripture the importance placed upon the need to have elders. a human-designated term. There was no glory or wealth in being a shepherd, once one of the more despised positions due to its lowliness. Thus, I try to insert IMO where applicable. The protracted dispute between Pastor James MacDonald and Harvest Bible Chapel (HBC) recently concluded through arbitration.Now the Chicago-area megachurch is sharing details of the settlement and has apologized to its former pastor, who was fired in February 2019.. MacDonald also is speaking out for the first time about the contentious, high-profile split with the congregation he led for 30 . If you go here you can see them listed in the browser search https://duckduckgo.com/?q=the+chosen+producers+james+macdonald&t=ffsb&ia=web but when you click on the link you can see that Jenkins had the producers list altered to remove those names and place all new producers (the money) except for himself on the website. This resource is better: https://www.archbalt.org/clergy-personnel-division/bishops-priests-deacons/. Like they are so far in and so much of their identity comes from being part of the group that the thought of just leaving would be like jumping off of a cliff? 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